Comments for Why can't the poor just pirate software?

Comment from Cliff Walker on 2009-03-24

2009-03-24T16:00:51Z

The local grocery store will not give me food just because I am poor -- even if an accident has caused me to become unable to work. I know this because I tried it once and ended up spending that summer in a jail cell! That was 25 years ago. Since then, I recovered from the accident, put my life back together -- and then got into another accident, this one rendering permanent damage. (And people ask me why I'm an atheist!)

Since the second accident, I have subsisted at less than 70 percent of the US Poverty Level. I pay $400 for my HMO now that I cannot work.

Still, I own a top-notch computer (3.40g dual Pentium with 3g RAM) and recently upgraded Corel Draw and the Adobe CS4 Suite (the whole banana), paying the same prices that you would.

Of course there are many things in life that most Americans take for granted that I choose to do without, beginning with an automobile (I don't drive and never have, although my wheelchair costs more than most pay for their cars) and ending with a television set (I've never owned one of those things, either).

No. What I want is to work on my web site and enjoy the company of my various pets, so I do without just about everything else. It can be done without breaking laws or doing anything immoral.

Of course, many good things can be had without paying for them (and I didn't say "for free").

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Comment from rob on 2009-03-17

2009-03-17T17:56:49Z

David July 31 @ 4.36:- That is MS or the OEM doing wrong. They are allowed to cos they are corporations. Law is just for the poor and ordinary

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Comment from David on 2008-07-31

2008-07-31T23:36:27Z

ok, here's a question...a friend of mine bought a new computer with winxp on it, no cd came with it. His os quit and he had to format to get it back, he bought vista but didn't like it so he downloaded a pirated xp and is using that. All he's doing is still using the xp license he bought, just a diff one. How is that wrong??

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Comment from Eric on 2008-07-19

2008-07-19T23:31:20Z

Personally if you want them to learn about technology go down there and start selling Linux distros for 75 cents each.. The price of the disk. Then your not breaking any laws. Linux is under the GNU license ( General Public license) Meaning its legal to copy and distribute the software. And many disks come packed with programing software. Windows does not meaning if you gave them windows and told them to program the would have to know exactly what their doing already because they have no internet to download a ready made c++ coder. It is essentially a waste to send windows without internet. It was mearly a man trying to make a profit. Not to mention if these are indeed older machines then windows most likely will have problems running on them anyways. You can get distros built for older machines running on as little as 24 mbs of ram. Personally I think your friend is a con artist. If he really want them to learn he would 1. Bring linux instead Or 2. Bring aditional software for windows enabling them to learn. As well he would not charge 5 dollars he would charge little more then the cost of making the disk. Personally I have thought of taking software to poor countrys and it always falls on free.

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Comment from lightningz on 2008-04-27

2008-04-28T05:42:40Z

If you agree that piracy is theft. you or very wrong. It's nothing like stealing a car. It's like like killing anyone also. The fact is this stealing is wrong define Stealing. Well If i would go to some ones house and steal there cat yea thats stealing. Due to the reson it's a real item. Software that someone downloaded is not. Someone paid for that software you download. So if you think of it like letting others use your item. if thats sealing then only you you paid for a can never let your frends use that car or that car lot could sue you for a lost sell.

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Comment from Magnus on 2008-04-14

2008-04-14T19:42:40Z

If you agree that piracy is theft and that poor people shoud be helped through wellfare then I don´t get it. Because the only difference is legality. Law is not the same as morale. Wellfare is often finaced by taxes. Taxation is in effect the government stealing money from people and corporations. Piracy or wellfare, it´s all just techincalities really.

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Comment from Martin Nyama on 2008-04-11

2008-04-11T12:26:06Z

Piracy is theft just like house breaking pick pocketing. The owner of the software loses so much in just few minutes for the work that he/she has done in months. I think the poor who cannot afford to buy must be helped in the same way that the welfare helps those who cannot feed themselves and those who pirate must be arrested cause piracy is a euphemism for theft.

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Comment from Ingmar Forne on 2008-04-07

2008-04-07T10:43:11Z

Hi!

I agree with Leo. Theft is theft. Always. And there is no reason anymore to pirate software. There are free alternatives to almost everything. I should know. I migrated to Linux last Christmas. I'm happy with the migration, and I will not go back to Microsoft's faulty products.

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Comment from Munyaradzi on 2008-04-06

2008-04-07T06:50:11Z

Yes, there are lots FREE of alternatives to pirated software that can achieve the same end. People should do whats within the reach of their pockets. I dont mean to be mean but why should i want a bently if my pocket cannot afford? Better yet, why should want a bentley when 1. I cant afford it and 2. There are free cars by the car dump? Wrong is wrong. Stealing is stealing and they should be punished.

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Comment from Leonard on 2008-04-06

2008-04-07T02:24:39Z

Theft is still theft, in this case, is not apples to apples. Material theft (taking someone's car purse or food!) is not the same as copying music or software from a corporate giant. I too, feel for musicians and software developers who get ripped off, but that is an industry fault. It doesn't make sense to blame people that use pirated software, rather we should figure out how to harness the fact that they want to!!!

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Comment from W. Griffin on 2008-04-06

2008-04-06T21:32:38Z

All crime !!I dont care where it takes place, will set higher limits, constraint's, security,, and the list go's on.
Look at the restraints the music industry went to trying to stop this same thing from eroding their industry.
Microsoft software has plenty of restraints on it already,,,just download Vista or some music if your in doubt.
Do we realy need more limitations.
We all pay for crime eventually,,,dont make any difference what county it takes place in.
Microsoft and others watch this type of thing real close,,trust me, they do..

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Comment from Ken Crook on 2008-04-05

2008-04-06T05:15:37Z

"No Internet Service Provider in many part of this subcontinent. Forget ISP many regions don't have electricity."

This is where the One Computer Per Child effort is dumb. In places where there is no electricity, telephone, water, sanitation, and limited food, even talking about computers is ridiculous. The government and people of these poor countries should put their limited monies and effort in providing the basics of life first.

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Comment from Binay on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T20:07:09Z

I m an Indian and I do beleive that a theft is a theft. No matter how poor you are. I m not here to justify that poors have right to pirate but I want to draw your attention why people in this country or rather in South Asia use pirated software:
1. Your $1 is equivalent to our Rs. 40 and the prices of original softwares are too much in indian currency. Not even middle class will be able to buy.
2. Yes, there are free softwares available like
openoffice.org. But who will teach these softwares because either people dont know about these softwares or if they know they will not get any job after learning these. Because no company use OpenOffice.org.
3. Linux is a good choice but why dont people use these. Let me tell you. I am a computer science graduate and doing my masters in Information technology. By the time I will do my masters I will not have read more than 50 pages of Linux and a little bit of shell scripting. In India Linux is used only in very very high level companies. Also 95% of private institutes in India teach very liitle or nothing about Linux.
4. In this part of the world people are crazy about Microsoft and its Products because either Microsoft has tied up with the different states of our country or it is pushing its products vigorously in private institutes. I am not blaming Microsoft but its presence in every field of the software is not a healthy sign (due to lack of competetion).
4. No Internet Service Provider in many part of this subcontinent. Forget ISP many regions don't have electricity.

But at the end of the day I beleive piracy is bad for this software industry. There is so much pain and money invested in developing a software. But if Government, Private Institutes, Microsoft and Other Leading Vendors, Companies using these products....etc join their hands there will be some solution.

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Comment from Sam on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T18:03:10Z

Leo, I have to disagree with one of your premises, because I don't believe it is stealing unless BOTH of the following are true:
1) You take something that doesn't belong to you, AND AND AND:
2) There is an actual loss to another party (no matter how slight or abstract of loss, and no matter how rich they are).

If I "pirate" when I would otherwise have purchased, then I stole.

However, if I wouldn't have purchased anyway, then my "pirating" is NOT a theft, because nobody lost anything (because either way, the "owner" gets $0.00).

This may not (yet) be a point of law, but I strongly believe it to be consistent with logic and morality.

For this reason, I scoff at the quoted figures of "losses" from illegal downloading: the vast amount of these "losses" would not have been gained anyway, even if the downloading were somehow made impossible.

(BTW - it's not at all uncommon for "law" to be at odds with logic and morality).

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Comment from glorya on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T17:57:34Z

Hey, I am poor! Why can't I just go into the bank and rob it without penalty? Isn't poverty justification for stealing?

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Comment from BlueBearr on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T15:39:14Z

In the US, copyright infringement is against the law. It is distinct from theft, however, in that it does not deprive the owner of use of the item, as theft does. However, just because it is distinct from theft doesn't make it right (as some would claim).

In some countries, the law is different. I don't know the legality of the reported copying in India. It might be legal there, though a US citizen might still be subject to US copyright law.

However, I agree with you Leo that the Robin Hood argument is specious. If someone truly wants to help Indians increase their technical knowledge, surely there are legal ways to do it.

John Merah - check out this page: http://www.osalt.com/
or this page: http://www.google.com/search?q=open+source+alternatives

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Comment from Roger B on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T14:48:50Z

There is a benefit unmentioned in other commentary to be realized in using free operating systems and programs in lieu of pirated software.
The more a program is used, the better it is developed and the more need is created for it. The more popular it is, the more popular it becomes.
There is more talent in "underdeveloped" countries than "developed" countries realize. Learning Linux based systems isn't rocket science, and getting better all the time.
My confession- I'm lazy. That said I have a dual boot system and dabble in Ubuntu. It surfs the web, has more than sufficient word/excel capability in open office, etc. It's actually fun. But'' I'm lazy and still use windows too.
If I didn't have Windows, no way would I shell out the price, I'd go Linux.
If they didn't ship Windows automatically on new systems, and you had to pay for it separately, the world would be on Linux! Roger

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Comment from Ron Barker on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T13:50:55Z

People don't seem to get it, it is not theft unless it is against the law in the counry where the copying is done. If it is not an offence in that country then it is not theft.

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Comment from Normand on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T13:06:04Z

Leo is spot on :
Seeking to justify a wrong by comparison to a greater wrong, imposed or self imposed, is insane.
This is like saying : I'll vote for the devil I know rather than for the devil that I don't know !
I.e.Two WRONGS [ the stealer and user ] cannot equal a right anymore than two devils can = a saint.
In my estimation this is just another example of our failing morals and values, that were once held so dear.
Norm.

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Comment from vincent on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T10:24:26Z

I agree with Leo. That guy selling copies of XP in India for $5 ? That's still a lot of money for the poor over there, especially when they can just install Ubuntu and Openoffice on their pc's for $0.
Besides, if $8 is a monthly wage, where did they find the money to buy their hardware?
Anyway, if there were not one free alternative, it be a different story.

My two cents...

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Comment from Robert George Douglas on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T10:00:23Z

Ask Leo comments on theft

Oh my, how we all, so 'comfortably', miss the real point ! We (ie the affluent) all are guilty, to greater or lesser extent, of theft, but it is sanitised or should I say 'legalised' within the capitalist structure of law. Consider the Fat Cat phenomenon, an extreme, but insidious, example of the evil that exemplifies the deceitfulness of riches. But, human nature is patently greedy, philosophers call it the "human condition", and so we tolerate the evil and even defend it with such contemptible arguments as "The politics of envy". Perhaps that is because we are ever hopeful of the possible exploitation ("enjoyment") of the system ourselves (I don't exempt myself, no matter how hard I try to resist the seductive lure of the attractions that accrue to personal wealth). So we observe the rich getting richer - but at whose cost ? Here the laws of cause and effect take hold, for, when the rich get richer, the inexorable effect is, the poor get poorer. There is hypocrisy in this argument about theft that is self-evident, but who cares ? In the event, it is a very few ! Just the odd Mahatma Gandhi, William Wilberforce, Sister Teresa, Martin Luther King Jnr. A redeeming factor in this debate is the majority consensus that theft is wrong. The pity of all this is the indifference towards and oversight of that equally real theft, which is sanitised and legalised by a non-caring society where theft is spawned of desperation, necessity and poverty. Thank GOD we no longer imprison starving children for stealing bread. Try living on bread, if for only one day, and you will begin to understand what I am trying to say. That is the real issue here. It should be up for action, not debate. We miss you Dr King ! (he was murdered 40 years ago for daring to speak the truth).
Robert George Douglas.

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Comment from Hugh E Torrance on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T09:18:38Z

Charging $5 was wrong he should have given it away for free having absorbed the cost of copying the discs... That would have been Christian

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Comment from Ron Barker on 2008-04-05

2008-04-05T07:55:34Z

Theft is a matter of law, particularly copyright law. I do not know what the position is as to the law in Kashmir, but if it is not against the law to copy computer programmes then it is not theft to copy them.

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Comment from Norm on 2008-04-04

2008-04-05T06:54:23Z

While stealing is rarely, if ever, justified, there are some areas where it is very tempting.
XXX (name avoided to protect the guilty) Studios routinely pulls their movies from distibution. The only way for years after to get the movies is from resellers, many of whom are actually selling pirated (bootleg) copies that look very close to the original. In virtually all cases you are a victim of pricing practices that should be illegal. I refer to one movie, un-named here to protect the guilty, that I wanted to get. I searched the internet and found listings for this movie. The original price on the DVD for this was probably $25 or less. The least expensive (listed as out of stock) was a bit over $30, but no problem because they could get you a copy for $60-100 per copy. They had a tutorial to help you recognize pirated copies. Most of listed DVDs (some at $150) were pirated if you were to believe their guide. Worse, one copy that probably was real was priced at $350.
If I knew someone with an original copy of the movies I want, I would be very tempted to have an illegal copy made of each one. All because a well known company that has complained about Piracy actually encourages it by making their movies almost impossible to obtain.
I know this is a bit far afield from that article but I thought it might be worth mentioning and maybe even getting a comment from Leo on this. :-)

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Comment from John Merah on 2008-04-04

2008-04-05T05:04:04Z

Leo:

Given you cite "totally free alternatives," it would be stand-up for you to follow through and actually provide a list in an upcoming newsletter. It would benefit those who aren't as well informed as you, and might even mitigate software piracy a smidgeon.

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Comment from Greg Bulmash on 2008-04-04

2008-04-05T04:44:13Z

Generally, what the most expensive packages do is give you all the tools you want under one umbrella. But it's rare that you can't find a combination of free and/or cheap alternatives that give you all the same tools. You just have to swap around a bit more.

When you buy the big expensive programs, you're generally paying for convenience moreso than functionality.

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Comment from John on 2008-04-04

2008-04-05T04:39:47Z

The possession of software is not necessary to sustain life, therefore it is wrong to steal it.
If a person is poor and is in a position where his family is starving, he can take a loaf of bread to prevent starvation. He is doing this because he has no other choice. Preservation of life trumps all.

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Comment from Bevin on 2008-04-04

2008-04-05T03:24:55Z

My comment is not on the morality of copying software or music. Yes stealing is stealing but in the case of electronic images, the stealing does not remove the item from the owner's possession, only the potential for revenue.

The point I want to make is about the absurd claims both the music industry and the software industry make about the amount of lost revenue. IN reality, most of the "stolen" product would not be purchased at any cost. At the height of my "geek-hood" I used to gather all the software programs that I could, both freeware and illegal copies. But apart from the essential word processing, speadsheet, etc (most of which I purchased anyway), I rarely if ever used those programs seriously, largely because I had no need. I believe that much of the software stolen these days is rarely used, and truly does not represent lost revenue because the "thief" would not have legally acquired the program otherwise.

I believe that the same applies to the stolen music, although to a lesser extent. Music provides entertainment and it doesn't require a functional need for it to be desired. So the pecentage of the stolen music that would otherwise be purchased would be higher; the iPods will devour all that can be fed to it, and likely, the users would purchase more if the stealing was not an option.

Nevertheless, the shrill claims and wailing anguish of the two industries, claiming exorbitant revenue loses is just rubbish and a gross and self-interest exaggeration.

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Comment from Abraham on 2008-04-04

2008-04-05T02:45:37Z

Theft under no circumstances justifiable. One aspect those in affluent countries do not undestand is the pourchasing power of money in poorer countries. A good artisan in India earns about $8 a day and that is sufficient for a living. Expecting him to buy a genuine software spending 3 or 4 days wages is too much. What MS can do probably is to allow such people to use old unsupported software free or at a price which these people can afford. They will continue to be with MS than migrating to other sources

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Comment from Stu Kopelman on 2008-04-04

2008-04-05T02:27:20Z

Here is a moral reason, and while based upon biblical principles, states the case against piracy very well; that is, inasmuch as God commands both the rich man and the poor man not to steal---even when it is true that it is far easier for the rich man not to need to steal, He also says to both the loving person and the hateful person to love one another even though it is far easier for the loving person to be more loving. What is being said is that it is far easier for some to master some things and others to master other things, but God has no provision to only master what is easy; we must master both. It is not a question of fairness, but a matter of accepting what is just even when our circumstances and our feelings rebel against it. The simple fact is that the law is in place to prevent people from doing whatever they please---such as pirating software.

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Comment from margent on 2008-04-04

2008-04-05T01:33:59Z

What about all the stuff MS has stolen from others over the years? I guess thats OK?
Let them have at multibilionair Gates any way they can.

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Comment from Morgan on 2008-04-04

2008-04-04T20:08:29Z

I suggest that next time your friend goes back to India that he recommends they use Open Source alternatives. While OpenOffice does not have all the functionality of Microsoft Office (especially at an enterprise level) it is excellent to learn the fundamentals on. Take resources to teach them how to program so that they can enhance the tools they use. It gives them the oppertunity to learn new skills not just with a word processor or spreadsheet but as a developer. Open Source software gives you so much more than proprietary in the long run as you can modify it to best suit your needs. All of your data is stored in open formats so you are not held to ransom to access your data. Taking software from Microsoft and Adobe, etc. is just hurting them in the long run.

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