Comments for

Comment from Viki Valentine on 2009-07-01

2009-07-02T02:53:42Z

I read every word you said. is hotmail.com just behind the times or am I missing sdomething? I get junk mail over and over and can't block the idiots. thank you for your time.

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Comment from JR on 2009-04-08

2009-04-08T17:37:12Z

Leo - Your comments assume that by submitting emails as spam, a new filter is being created for many different users. Perhaps this is the documented way that these services work. However, what if by submitting emails as spam, a filter is being created that is customized to me and only me. In other words, my improper categorization of a newsletter about turkeys as spam will result in a filter that weeds out content that is sent to me and relates to turkeys , but your filter continues to send you content relating to turkeys.

I can tell you as a newsletter publisher myself, and having managed many mailing lists, more often than not "Report As Spam" is used at the global level. If you report something as spam, then that may very well affect someone else's ability to get that same email.

- Leo
09-Apr-2009

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Comment from Kara on 2009-02-04

2009-02-04T21:52:59Z

Here's another twist to the reporting of spam: I receive MANY a spam email where the sender has spoofed my own email address as the sender. When it arrives in my inbox, it looks as if it's coming from either my specific address or the info@ address on my website. The difference? They usually have no time/date stamp.

My hosting provider tells me that if I mark those as spam, it will mark ME as a spammer -- not what I want for sure. So, I just have to exercise that good 'ole delete button.

I also use a program called MailWasherPro from FireTrust -- it gives you a preview of mail on your server before you download it into your Outlook or other email program. You can use MailWasherPro to mark as spam, delete and/or bounce (send a message that this was sent to an invalid address) each message in your queue before they hit your actual inbox. It wasn't free, but not expensive either. And it saves me a lot of time in cutting the crap before it takes up bandwidth/time to download on my machine.

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Comment from david cowling on 2009-02-04

2009-02-04T19:21:54Z

My ISP is Orange. To avoid any problems with infected e mails or junk, i log into the orange website and open my e mails from there. I can tick all to clear all e mails or untick the one's i want, which, when i open outlook only brings in the e mails i unticked..brilliant....

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Comment from Charlotte Hyatt on 2009-01-27

2009-01-28T04:35:36Z

This is a reply to what Claude said in December. Yes, yahoo has a 'block Address' function but the only block 100 addresses. Unfortunately, you start receiving it again after that and have to erase the list and start a new one. The spammers change their IP addresses/domain/websites, whatever, so often that by the time the list is full they are not using those old addresses anyway.

I have tried to get some of my friends to be responsible and not just hit the spam button if they do not like what they are getting.

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Comment from Marolyn on 2009-01-27

2009-01-27T17:56:07Z

I use Incredimail for my e-mail, and they have a block sender & bounce to sender option. It seems to work on my receiving spam from all the spam I get from places I did not request mail from.

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Comment from SusanM on 2009-01-27

2009-01-27T13:45:21Z

I'm so irritated about the amount of spam I get. Like you, it's almost 90% of my mail. Even though my gmail has a great spam filter, I still have to open the spam folder and make sure that nobody accidentally got marked as spam by someone else (exactly what you explained NOT to do). So, being responsible, I scroll down through the list of 30 to 40 per day rather than just blindly emptying the folder,and hate that I have to start my day being assaulted with the bad spelling and tasteless subject lines. Recently many of them have begun to say they are from me. Really annoying. Why can't they be blocked by the server?? After being marked as spam, let's say, 1000 times, couldn't they automatically be blocked?

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Comment from Rosie Perera on 2009-01-26

2009-01-27T06:29:23Z

I was under the impression that if you blocked a sender in Outlook, it would only block them locally on your machine, not on your ISP's servers. So it wouldn't make any difference to that sender's attempts to send their newsletter to other recipients. Am I right?

I've had problems with unsolicited email coming from legitimate companies that I've had dealings with (e.g., ordered one thing online from them) but never requested to get their newsletter. It turns out that they automatically subscribe you to their newsletter (without telling you) if you buy one thing from them. After a while of getting annoyed by the newsletter, if you made note of your login id and password which you had to create in order to order the item, you can log back into their website and go change your settings so you no longer receive the newsletter. But I find it annoying to have to create all these accounts to manage separate delivery options for all sorts of things. I wish all e-commerce companies would let you order things from them just as anonymously as if you walked into a bricks & mortar store and bought it with your credit card. The CC company gets your payment info, but the store you bought it from doesn't get your address and can't spam you with advertising for more products of theirs.

The final category of annoying email that I get is political junk mail. I have no idea how my email address got on some Democratic Party mailing list, but it did. I'm a Democrat so it's not entirely out of the question that I might have given my email address when registering for a dinner fundraiser for John Kerry or something. But I've asked repeatedly since then for them to take me off their mailing list. Problem is, there are a bunch of different Democrat organizations and they all share their mailing lists with each other. And if you get taken off one, they'll get it back again from some other that originally got their list from the parent organization when your name was on it. And on and on it goes. It seems to be impossible to completely eradicate my email address from all of their records. And some of them don't even include an "unsubscribe" link, which I consider unconscionable.

Correct: block sender is roughly equivalent to "any time I get email from this email address, move it to the junk mail folder, or delete it" - Outlook doesn't know how to tell your email provider that it should be blocked further upstream.

In all honesty, if you're getting email that you didn't request, including sales and marketing materials from someone you did business with, I say that's a valid use of the "This is Spam" button. It's unsolicited email. Especially in this day of spam overload you shouldn't get put on any email list without being asked, and without confirming (aka "confirmed opt-in").

I've become very aware of sales and other online forms that include checkboxes that sign you up for more email, and the boxes are automatically checked. I find that very slimy and if you're not paying attention it's easy to start getting email that you "asked for", when of course you did not.

- Leo
27-Jan-2009

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Comment from claude on 2008-12-20

2008-12-20T22:55:28Z

I found an effective way to stop spammers. If you are with yahoo, they have a mail option, which directs you to a "Block address" if you can find out the IP address of the spammer, list it there and it does work. I stopped those abusive spammers in 2 days. Try it

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Comment from Maxine Foster on 2008-10-24

2008-10-24T22:48:28Z

I have been inundated lately by ads for penile enhancement (!) and knowing if I report them as spam it just seems to make it worse. But every time I try to "unsubscribe", the next window says "Not Found". So what recourse do I have then? I have not subscribed to any part of these ads.

You have almost no recourse other than anti-spam filters in your email client or those provided by your email provider. You should never click on an unsubscribe link except when it's something that you actually subscribed to. Unsubscribe links contained within spam (i.e. NOT those in legitimate email) will also just get you more spam.

- Leo
25-Oct-2008

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Comment from lilian ashman on 2008-08-06

2008-08-06T09:10:33Z

It is really funny Leo, as 2 of the sites I really trust, are yours & "crikey.com",& are the only 2 for which I get the warning "thunderbird thinks this is spam". I just click on the "not spam" button, & go ahead. There is always a slight pause,or re-adjustment,& I charge ahead, so I assume I am doing the right thing. I have never had a problem with "un-subscribe" option, probably as I take good care, as to whom I subscribe.
regards,
Lilian.

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Comment from Glenn P. on 2008-08-05

2008-08-06T05:43:19Z

Someone wrote:

> As long as you NEVER use it for email that you
> requested (newsletters that subscribed to, for
> example), you're fine.

That is my policy also -- with however ONE important exception. Newsletters (or any other E-Mail, for that matter) to which I subscribed, and then unsubscribed from, BUT WHICH CONTINUE TO BE DELIVERED, MY EXPLICIT UNSUBSCRIPTION TO THE CONTRARY NOTWITHSTANDING, after the third unsuccessful unsubscribe attempt get reported as Spam. Period.

Object lesson to newsletter publishers: make SURE that you honor all unsubscribe requests -- or else accept the consequences!

Agreed.

-Leo

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Comment from Guy on 2008-08-05

2008-08-06T04:03:06Z

Here's my idea: Give me a 'Return as Undeliverable' button, which requests that the particular email be returned just as if my address was defunct (a big white lie). Hopefully, the junk emailer would remove my 'defunct' address and not even sell it. No more junk; no filter needed.

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Comment from Leo A. Notenboom on 2007-04-30

2007-04-30T19:34:39Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

You're overlooking an important difference:

Did you subscribe and ask for the email? Then use the unsubscribe button to
stop it.

If you didn't ask for it, then it's spam.

Leo
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFGNkTWCMEe9B/8oqERAmwNAJ9f4HBLo/wMbkEY9pjnOxrs2DlGUACeNUZq
zwwrjzDUBrIy0PqhVXZ1ad4=
=vn5b
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Comment from George Upham on 2007-04-30

2007-04-30T14:13:14Z

On the other hand, we are told that using the UNSUBSCRIBE option will tell the sender that we really exist and that our adddress is valid which makes them continue. We are therefore advised NOT to use the UNSUBSCRIBE option. A nice Catch-22. Another problem is that many of the "UNSUBSCRIBE" buttons simply do nothing.

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Comment from Devil wear smart ass on 2006-10-01

2006-10-02T00:44:35Z

lol..spammers and mass mailers are ass cancer

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Comment from Leo Notenboom on 2006-09-20

2006-09-21T01:13:34Z

As long as you NEVER use it for email that you requested (newsletters that subscribed to, for example), you're fine.

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Comment from carl graves on 2006-09-20

2006-09-20T19:32:35Z

I use the block sender button in my e-mail to stop spam senders --am I correct in doing this or could I be causing more problems--it seems to be working -but I've only been doing it for a short time --Carl G.

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Comment from Danny on 2006-09-17

2006-09-17T12:05:53Z

I only use the spam button for genuine spam. Lately I've been using for publishers which I've opted into but they automatically decided to send me other news letters.

A good example of this is Gophercentral.com; sign up for their newsletters and they automatically subscribe you to a "video edition" of each newsletter. Essentially all the video edition is spam plugging another one of their sites. I never asked nor was told I would be subscibed to a "video edition" therefore it is spam.

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Comment from Calvin on 2006-01-16

2006-01-17T02:33:16Z

I mistakenly pressed the THIS IS SPAM instead of the PRINT button on an email. The person who sent the email can no longer send emails to @netscape.net. This has created a huge issue since they can no longer send emails to netscape. I tried calling Netscape, but they are not helpful. Anyone have any suggestions how I can undo this? Please help!

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Comment from Gary on 2006-01-11

2006-01-11T17:53:27Z

Chris, judging by your posts, you really look like a big baby crying for attention.

Incidently, your comments are similar in nature to one guy I happen to know. He has a very low IQ. Does that apply to you as well? I'm just making a reasonable assumption.

If you want to use the spam button, use it, but what's kiddish is the way you are yakking around here telling us that you used it, apparently just to piss us off.

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Comment from Leo on 2006-01-07

2006-01-08T05:16:09Z

You raise an incredibly good issue. Legitmate businesses that don't behave properly as as much to blame for not only spam, but for people's confusion as to what is and is not spam as well.

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Comment from pharmerboy on 2006-01-07

2006-01-08T00:33:16Z

Now for the flip side of all this. There are several "legitimate" business who have a "right" to contact me because I've done business with them, or signed up for their newsletters. But then when I try to use the "unsubscribe", it doesn't work.

I stress again, these are REAL companies, not "typical" spammers using the unsubscribe link to verify my existence. They just probably don't take the time to make the unsubscribe button actually work (why should they?).

Are THEY spam? Should I call these legitimate retailers "spammers", because they use spammer tactics? (looks like spam, talks like spam, quacks like spam, etc.)

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Comment from Chris on 2006-01-06

2006-01-07T05:03:26Z

Well spam to me is unwanted mail. Perhaps I really did want it, but after a few months I didn't anymore, so its unwanted. Spam. And for all the insults, I've requested your newsletter and reported it as Spam, so good day all. Oh and thanks for the WMF notice, I'll download that patch. :p

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Comment from Ivan Tadej on 2005-12-28

2005-12-28T20:59:40Z

Well Chris, you really just don't seem to get it ?? It's pretty simple; it was YOU who subscribed to some newsletter (or whatever), an because of that simple fact, the e-mail messages you start getting are therefore not SPAM. And also, it is YOU who prevent other users of getting these legitimate messages, because you din't bother to unsubscibe and just hit the "Spam" button. Btw., this is all nicely explained in the original Leo's article. And I agree with Greg, i.e. this is without any doubt very selfish thing to do. On the other hand, Kristy just doesn't seem to understand the difference between SPAM and non-SPAM e-mails.

P.S., Recently, I discovered a real gem; an only 81 KB in-size anti-spam program from Keir software called K9: http://www.keir.net/k9.html. In short, K9 is an anti-spam application that "sits" between e-mail servers and an e-mail client (I use it with Mozilla Thunderbird); so it's not the type that only checks the servers for spam (however, it can also do that), but "ignores" the e-mail client. And well, it's also available in the "non-setup" form (the form of programs I prefer), i.e. a .zip archive, and no installation procedure required. Yeah, I know that this might sound strange, but that was the main reason for trying it in the first place.

best regards,
Ivan Tadej, Slovenija, Europe
http://www.tadej-ivan.tk

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Comment from MEBEER on 2005-12-27

2005-12-28T02:45:03Z

I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE MORE NOTICE OF WHAT THEIR SIGNING FOR AND THESES SPAM BUTTONS WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE PRESSED. AS FOR MYSELF I ONLY SIGN UP FOR WHAT I WANT SO I NEVER USE THE SPAM BUTTON FOR ANY REASON IF I GET E-MAIL I DON'T WANT OR ASK FOR I JUST DELETE IT A FEW TIMES AND THEY GET TIRED SENDING IT AND DON'T SEND ANYMORE.SO MY FAVOURITE BUTON ON THIS COMPUTER IS DELETE.

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Comment from Leo A. Notenboom on 2005-12-26

2005-12-27T03:07:37Z

"None of the above" :)

I've heard reports from several friends of mine with GMail accounts that GMail's spam filter seems to have hiccuped, and more has been getting through than should. I would assume that Google will fix this at some point soon.

Interestingly, not all GMail users are seeing it.

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Comment from Ken on 2005-12-26

2005-12-27T02:57:13Z

In a slightly different vein, is it possible for correct, responsible use of the "Report Spam" button to INCREASE the amount of spam in my inbox? Actually, I guess it would really be DECREASING the amount of spam caught by the filter.

I use Gmail exclusively and for quite a while Google's spam filter seemed to be doing OK. Not stellar, but better than nothing.

A month or so ago, I got a wild hair (I won't say where) and started using the "Report Spam" button on Gmail more diligently. Since then, the amount of spam hitting my inbox seems to have gone up.

Is this "Bayesian Spam Filter Weirdness" real or just a statistical fluke caused by the fact that I'm paying attention to the amount of spam and therefore noticing it more. Or have I just been drinking too much Diet Coke?

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Comment from Leo A. Notenboom on 2005-12-23

2005-12-23T17:57:27Z

I do want to be clear and reiterate what the article says, that some folks appear to be missing:

Use the spam button for spam.

DON'T use the spam button if the email is NOT spam. Especially if the email is something you requested, like a newsletter subscription.

Yahoo, in particular, is VERY problematic for legitimate on-line publishers these days. If they're telling you to use the spam button even when the mail isn't really spam, I can see why.

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Comment from Chris on 2005-12-23

2005-12-23T17:48:36Z

Call me names and judge my character?
My ISP sends me mail all the time saying to use Spam button, to make the Internet a better place. And after contacting Yahoo, they say that reporting mail will stop it from your inbox, and not other users.

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Comment from Gary on 2005-12-23

2005-12-23T09:08:37Z

Chris really doesn't have any ethics....

Or maybe I didn't have the right to say the first sentence without considering the circumstances. Maybe Chris is troubled by lots of spam - a probable reason for his selfish attitude...

On the other hand if he is someone getting medium to low amount of mail, then I take back my second paragraph, and reinstate my first line :)

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Comment from Leo A. Notenboom on 2005-12-22

2005-12-22T21:39:59Z

Because if it's not really spam, you ARE hurting others, and you ARE making the spam problem worse.

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Comment from Chris on 2005-12-22

2005-12-22T21:05:48Z

If its easier why should I do it any other way. This is MY Inbox here. If I dont want a email from a specific sender, I really dont want it. The spam button tells the ISP "no more"

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Comment from Greg Bulmash on 2005-12-21

2005-12-22T03:07:53Z

Chris and Kristy exemplify the two types of people who hit the "spam" button for non-spam letters.

First, on Chris's end, he claims he does it because it's easier, end of story, and he doesn't care who it inconveniences. Since Leo has to be nice, I'll go ahead and call him a selfish jerk. But he's also clueless about this being effective.

I've gotten spam from a specific source, reported it, and kept getting spam from that source. I eventually had to add a custom filter to manually blacklist that sender on my account. That's happened more than once.

The big mail providers do not necessarily act quickly on individual spam reports. It can take a while for a newsletter publisher or lower-volume spammer to get blocked. In the meantime, you keep getting their mail.

So if you're using it as an alternative to the "unsubscribe" process, you could keep getting it for weeks. It's faster and easier to unsubscribe.

On Kristy's end, she doesn't understand the difference between spam and non-spam mail. With evil spammers who got your e-mail address off a CD or guessed it, following their unsubscribe option is bad because you're confirming your e-mail address is valid, and they can now sell it as being verified as reaching a person and reaching someone who reads their spam.

BUT, if you signed up via double opt-in, the sender already know your address is good because you signed up and then confirmed the sign-up by mail. Unsubscribing from a list where you signed up will not get you on any new spam lists. It's also going to be faster and more effective than hitting the spam/junk button at Yahoo or Hotmail.

- Greg

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Comment from Leo A. Notenboom on 2005-12-21

2005-12-21T21:42:44Z

Kristy: that's true **for unsolicited mail**. If you ASKED to be added to a mailing list - if YOU SIGNED UP FOR IT - then unsubscribe is the proper way to stop receiving it.

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Comment from Leo A. Notenboom on 2005-12-21

2005-12-21T21:41:21Z

Chris: by using the spam button for email you asked for, you are making the spam problem worse for youself and for everyone.

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Comment from Kristy on 2005-12-21

2005-12-21T21:37:32Z

I have heard that if you click "unsubscribe" then that will allow a host of other "sites" to send you garbage you never asked for. I've been told that if you just simply delete the email and not open it, the sender will not know if it's a legitimate email address or not. Is this true?

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Comment from Chris on 2005-12-21

2005-12-21T21:35:40Z

If people dont want the mail to come to their inbox, "Spam" button is the easiest and fastest way! Instead of the hassle of unsubscibing, just hit "Spam". Definetly easier, and I don't care who gets their legit mail or not.

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