Helping people with computers... one answer at a time.

With all of today's technology, one would think that it would be easy to track down the owners of "illegal" sites. It's much more complicated than that.

How do banned/illegal organizations host their websites on the internet? I mean, how can Al Qaeda host their websites/forums to recruit followers without getting caught? How do they get their domain registered? My second question is related to the first one. How can Taliban/Anonymous (Hacker Group) tweet or use Facebook without getting caught? Why can't they be caught from their IP address?

This is actually a very complex question that involves some amount of technology - and what can and can be done with it.

More than anything else, though, it's about international law, politics, and a very, very stark realization.

Not everyone on the planet thinks as we might.

And that "planet" part is important.

An IP address doesn't get you far

As I've written about before, an IP address only gets you so far. At best, it only gets you to a device that's connected directly to the internet. Mere mortals like you and I can't even get that far, because the information about who owns that device or where it is located is protected by the internet service provider.

"... sites ... are often hosted in countries that have limited enforcement resources or technical knowledge.”

In the U.S., that means that we first have to get a court order or other legal document to force the ISP to provide that information.

Even then, if that device is simply a router behind which there are many computers, the IP address alone hasn't told you which one. Through proxies, routers, and anonymization servers, it's very possible for the actual computer involved to be very well hidden. That's one of the ways that the hacker group Anonymous has remained so elusive.

But let's pretend for a moment that it's not. Agencies working at the behest of the government probably have all the legal paperwork that they need and almost certainly have ready access to all the technical details.

On top of that, my guess is that most of the larger organizations that you're thinking of don't need to hide their server locations.

Not everyone agrees with you

Organizations that are considered evil in one part of the world may not be so despised elsewhere.

What's banned or illegal in one country might not be in another - and the internet is global.

An organization that you or I might vehemently disagree with needs only to find a country or location that is friendly to (or at least tolerant of) their cause to host their technology. Having done so, they're on the internet.

Now a knee-jerk reaction would be to sanction that hosting country somehow, or cut off their internet.

Sanctioning enters into the realm of politics that I don't really want to go into very deeply, other than to say that it's never that simple. Relationships with other countries are complex and are often important to maintain, even when we might disagree with some of their beliefs and policies.

Cutting off the internet not only requires the cooperation of all of the surrounding regions that might be feeding in internet (and hence, their unanimous agreement that it should be done - not so easily accomplished), but also has the unintended side-effect of cutting off everyone, including dissidents and others who might be more sympathetic to and working for our causes.

Not everyone has the resources

Perhaps a more common problem is that sites - including the not only politically controversial, but even malware, piracy or other sites that we might more commonly come into contact with - are often hosted in countries that have limited enforcement resources or technical knowledge.

This is something that we actually see in our own country - a small local town's sheriff might not have the expertise to even deal with an internet-related issue or the budget to get help. As a result, less serious internet-related issues are simply not prioritized.

The same is true at a global scale. Less developed or more cash-strapped countries may well have internet and internet hosting of some sort, but not the expertise or resources to pursue anything but the most heinous internet-related issues. Finding out who's behind a website hosted in their country might be well out of their abilities.

Remember free speech?

While it doesn't apply globally, in the United States, we pride ourselves on this concept of free speech, perhaps best exemplified by the quote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

That brings us back to U.S.-based hosting - just because we disagree with something that's posted on the internet doesn't mean that it can't be posted.1 Indeed, free speech means that all viewpoints, however repugnant, can be heard.

So many of the organizations that you might find offensive actually can be legally hosted right here at home.

It's not until that they actually do something illegal that stronger measures can be taken.

Now, in some cases, simply advocating illegal actions - perhaps such as a violent overthrow of the government - would itself be illegal. As a result, that's why many websites that take extreme positions and advocate illegal activity are more often hosted as I mentioned earlier; off-shore in countries that are more tolerant of their positions or less able to do anything about it.

1 "free speech" is often incorrectly used as an argument when posting comments. That's not how it works. The owner of a site is free to control the content of his site and that includes deleting comments and if appropriate, banning commenters. That's not a violation of free speech, but rather basic property rights. On the other hand, those who wish to share opinions that would be banned on another person's site are quite free to set up a site of their own on which they can express those views.

Please note: I post this article with some trepidation, as it ventures into the realm of international politics and I know many people have strong opinions on the topic. I absolutely invite comments, but require that you keep them respectful. As site owner, I will exercise my rights to delete abusive comments and/or even disable commenting entirely if it becomes unmanageable.

Article C4896 - August 5, 2011

Leo Leo A. Notenboom has been playing with computers since he was required to take a programming class in 1976. An 18 year career as a programmer at Microsoft soon followed. After "retiring" in 2001, Leo started Ask Leo! in 2003 as a place for answers to common computer and technical questions. More about Leo.

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Recent Comments
12 Comments

Very good answer, Leo.
What we should consider too, is, that if the means existed to "exclude" a country or site or ... we consider as hostile, the reverse is true: what if all the islamic/islamistic or other fundamentalist countries ask to "isolate" the US or Europe as hostile to their ideas? I hear the outcry, but they really think they are in the right, we are wrong, as all organizations that imagine they have the sole truth.

Posted by: Georges Oth at August 10, 2011 6:10 AM

Leo, well said. It worries me that a U.S. Senator said the following, "The media has got to begin to not give equal time or equal balance to an absolutely absurd notion just because somebody asserts it or simply because somebody says something which everybody knows is not factual, it doesn't deserve the same credit as a legitimate idea about what you do." If the idea is not factual then prove that --it will strengthen your position. God save us from out betters. (I'm using "betters" sarcastically)
( transcript and video: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/08/05/sen-kerry-asks-media-stop-giving-equal-time-or-equal-balance-absurd-t )

Posted by: Karl M at August 10, 2011 6:12 AM

Great article,I sometimes wondered why extremist groups are able to connect so easily with the rest of the world.
To reply to Karl M's point bothering to disprove nonsense like ,for example,creationism while discussing something about evolution actually strengthens that lunatic notion by identifying it as worthy of a reply.Having free speech is one thing but the media seems to think that means they are obligated to give all opinions equal airtime -and equal respect-even in time-slots that should be untainted like during the nightly news ,when all it means is ,feel free to yammer on to passersby .

Posted by: mona at August 22, 2011 1:26 PM

Very well put Leo. As usual, a rational explanation of what is going on put in a way we can all understand. Thanks.

Posted by: Steve Blake at August 28, 2011 11:36 AM

Let me see if I understand you mona -- free speech is fine as long as it isn't nonsense? And who gets to decide what is or is not nonsense? You?
God save us from our betters.
Karl M

Posted by: Karl M at August 29, 2011 12:32 PM
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